Comments on: Man Gets 14-Year Sentence For Sexual Abuse of His Son

By: Mairéad

Mairéad — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:14:46 +0000

P.S. The State does pay all costs of running our schools, but the Church runs most of them.
Yes, I know, crazy!

By: Mairéad

Mairéad — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:08:43 +0000

We don't have state run schools in Ireland, Mona, therefore we don't have public schools.
Most are Catholic schools, where the Catholic religion must be taught and is inspected.
The teachers cannot protect the children, as you are suggest.
The teachers are hired and fired by the priests.
If the priest wants to hear confessions one-to-one, alone with a child – do you think that the teachers can stop him?
He is the boss.
We have fine sounding child protection guidelines, but I couldn't put my hand on my heart and say that they are properly implemented, e.g. as above.
A big problem is that teachers do not have a proper place to complain.
The principal teacher is usually the DLP (Designated Liaison Person), but he / she is also an employee of the Bishop / Board / priest.
Social workers have huge caseloads, and go about their business in a strange way in my experience.
For example, twice in recent years, I have answered the school phone and been asked by a person who claimed to be a social worker, if I thought she should close the case on a named child.
1. I could have been anyone answering that phone.
2. She could have been anyone.
3. This was the first that anyone in the school had heard that this child had any contact with a social worker!
4. How should I know if the case should be closed – I knew nothing of the case even existing – and I am not a social worker.
I refused to enter into conversation on the phone (much to the annoyance of the caller) and asked her to make an appointment to call to the school. She didn't in either case, and I never heard another word.

By: Mona

Mona — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:41:59 +0000

There is no necessary connection. I guess I have not made myself clear. I am tiring of the discussion, though. Suffice it to say that atheistic humanism seems to work fine.

By: Bock

Bock — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:44:04 +0000

Mona –What is the connection between religion and morality?

By: Mona

Mona — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 01:50:17 +0000

In the USA the state run schools are called public and there is a law that stipulates that religion cannot be taught. So that means that morality and philosophy are'nt either. In fact some school systems are trying to impose the teaching of Creationism and outlaw the teaching of evolution. It's pretty nuts. Anyway, my point is that there are hundreds of thousands of children currently in catholic and other christian schools and therefore in danger of all the bad influences of religious fundamentalism. Their parents are not going to suddenly remove them; in the US catholics have remained incredibly faithful despite the abuse. In Ireland I think the solution is to separate education from the catholic church, but until that happens I think it is important to have teachers in those schools looking out for the children. In the US we need to allow the teaching of ethics etc in public schools but that is not going to happen.

By: Mairead

Mairead — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:41:36 +0000

We don't have any State schools / public schools in Ireland, Mona.
I hear what you're saying and after 20 something years myself, it is hard.
I do teach ethics, morality and philosophy with / without religion though.

By: Bock

Bock — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:30:54 +0000

Mona — Could you define what you mean by a public school?

By: Mona

Mona — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:21:46 +0000

No, absolutely not. But are there any public schools that teach ethics?

By: Bock

Bock — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:16:13 +0000

Mona — Are you saying that ethical philosophy and practical morality require religion?

By: Mona

Mona — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:48:33 +0000

Mairead, I hear your point. But what about the kids in school? I would not want my children raised in a secular society that does not allow for any kind of ethical philosophy and practical morality to be taught in the public schools. Neither would I want my children being educated by fundamentalist christians, who scare me intensely, whether they are Catholic, Baptist, non-denominational, whatever. In fact I wouldn't want my children being raised in any fundamentalist "we have the Truth and the Truth is One" religion OR political party. I WOULD want my children raised in the best kind of post- Vatican II Catholic education system that focuses on real critical thinking, allows students to challenge and question and form their own opinions, and exorcises all superstition and all grandiose claims to controlling people's eternal destinies, a church that sees sacraments as special moments in life when we give thanks and bless those we love: the newly born or berieved, the newly married ( gay or straight) and not as magical rituals. An educational system that approaches religion as a human quest for meaning in a universe which remains mysterious and even miraculous, and an educational system that approaches Catholicism as one of many traditions of belief that have developed a set of answers to life's biggest questions. But only one set. And finally a religious education that acknowledges that all we say and believe about God and destiny and life after life is all a matter of ancient myth, personal experiences of "the holy" and a shared hope that there is some kind of sense, meaning, purpose even if it is one we have to create and commit to ourselves…as Nietzsche suggests.

My teaching of religion involved this kind of openness and non-doctrination. And as long as I was allowed the freedom to do that, I know that I helped a lot of teenagers as they struggled with the big questions of their lives. But when the national bishops and the local archdiocese took over control of textbooks and curriculum I saw my "retirement " written on the wall. There are still over a 1,000 kids in my old school who are now being taught only the "catholic" truth and not the big picture. Teachers are not allowed to even suggest that Truth can refer to anything other than Catholic Truth/Doctrine. No Plato or Aristotle, Nietzsche, or Hesse, no Kushner or Frankl. AND I believe deeply, that they are worse off as a result.

So I guess I feel that while the church still runs schools we should not abandon the students to the fundamentalists and the misogynists, and those who see catholic as the only version of the truth and that truth as communicated from God directly to a group of old misogynists and closet homosexuals and pedophiles in Rome.

I taught high school religion for 27 years and led a whole department, and I came to the point where I couldn't teach what and how I thought I should teach. But I have some good friends who are still keeping up the fight within the catholic school systems, Jesuit and Dominican schools most of them. And I am proud to have worked with them. Me…I am over the diocesan church. Can't do it any more. But bless those who still try to keep it real.