Comments on: Libertas. Another Reason For Voting yes to the Lisbon treaty http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:35:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: We Don’t Pay Peanuts And Still We Get Monkeys « No Ordinary Fool http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-45787 We Don’t Pay Peanuts And Still We Get Monkeys « No Ordinary Fool Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:17:00 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-45787 [...] The Robber, who outted them here. He, then, followed this revelation up with a similar expose on Libertas (although I had seen that one beforehand in the mainstream [...] [...] The Robber, who outted them here. He, then, followed this revelation up with a similar expose on Libertas (although I had seen that one beforehand in the mainstream [...]

]]> By: Bock http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35688 Bock Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:44:43 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35688 Martin: As far as I know, this matter was not involved in the treaty at all, except to the extent that people might have been able to claim better pay under the Charter. Martin: As far as I know, this matter was not involved in the treaty at all, except to the extent that people might have been able to claim better pay under the Charter.

]]> By: Martin http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35680 Martin Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:50:32 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35680 Bock: re. your concern about the American military and associated industries....me too. Re. the euobserver link in my original post....can you throw any light on whether the Treaty would have addressed that issue? I'm gonna do some more reading but if you can save me some time I'd be grateful. Bock: re. your concern about the American military and associated industries….me too. Re. the euobserver link in my original post….can you throw any light on whether the Treaty would have addressed that issue? I'm gonna do some more reading but if you can save me some time I'd be grateful.

]]> By: Tom Ryan http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35526 Tom Ryan Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:11:50 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35526 Hi Bock, Actually I am in total agreement with you. I am just taking the opportunity to have a go at the Hypocrites of Politicians both native quisling and European. You did a great job in telling us about Ganley in better detail than anyone else. Respects, Tom Hi Bock,
Actually I am in total agreement with you. I am just taking the opportunity to have a go at the Hypocrites of Politicians both native quisling and European.
You did a great job in telling us about Ganley in better detail than anyone else.
Respects,
Tom

]]> By: Bock http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35523 Bock Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:02:23 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35523 Tom: If you have another look at what I wrote, you'll notice that I'm speaking for myself, and not for you. I have no idea what influenced you and it wouldn't be any of my business. This is my personal reaction to the involvement of Libertas, and I'm sure you have no objection to my seeing it this way. Do you? Tom: If you have another look at what I wrote, you'll notice that I'm speaking for myself, and not for you. I have no idea what influenced you and it wouldn't be any of my business. This is my personal reaction to the involvement of Libertas, and I'm sure you have no objection to my seeing it this way.

Do you?

]]> By: Tom Ryan http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35521 Tom Ryan Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:58:23 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35521 Democracy is dead in Europe. It is alive and well in Ireland. Look at the way France and Germany are now trying to marginalize us. The French are total hypocrites as well as bullies on this. Didn't their population vote no to essentially the same seven hundred pages of what is now essentially uncomfortable toilet paper. The German Administration didn't have the courage to trust their people to vote. So much for their democracy. They are now proving how right it is to vote no. If they are acting like this now, imagine what they would behave like when they would have us locked into seven hundred pages of unintelligible legal speak drivel. This was democracy in action at its very best and those who criticize this democratic decision of the Irish People the loudest are politicians who claim they are democrats. What a bunch of hypocrites and bad losers. How comes the American Constitution and Bill Of Rights are so easy to read and understand and an attempted European Constitution which they don't even dare to call a constitution is such a pile of crap? The answer is obviously that they don't want us to understand it. The Lisbon Treaty is dead and gone and good riddance to bad manipulative undemocratic rubbish. Regarding Ganley, He or any others of the "NO" campaign had any influence on my personal decision. I was heavily influenced by the "YES" campaign. Their bullshit was nauseating. By the way they are still at it. Hold your noses. Tom Ryan Democracy is dead in Europe. It is alive and well in Ireland. Look at the way France and Germany are now trying to marginalize us. The French are total hypocrites as well as bullies on this. Didn't their population vote no to essentially the same seven hundred pages of what is now essentially uncomfortable toilet paper. The German Administration didn't have the courage to trust their people to vote. So much for their democracy. They are now proving how right it is to vote no. If they are acting like this now, imagine what they would behave like when they would have us locked into seven hundred pages of unintelligible legal speak drivel. This was democracy in action at its very best and those who criticize this democratic decision of the Irish People the loudest are politicians who claim they are democrats. What a bunch of hypocrites and bad losers.
How comes the American Constitution and Bill Of Rights are so easy to read and understand and an attempted European Constitution which they don't even dare to call a constitution is such a pile of crap? The answer is obviously that they don't want us to understand it. The Lisbon Treaty is dead and gone and good riddance to bad manipulative undemocratic rubbish.
Regarding Ganley, He or any others of the "NO" campaign had any influence on my personal decision. I was heavily influenced by the "YES" campaign. Their bullshit was nauseating. By the way they are still at it. Hold your noses.
Tom Ryan

]]> By: Bock http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35519 Bock Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:46:59 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35519 Martin: That's fair enough. My point here isn't a negative one though. I just happen to be deeply disturbed at the thought that the American military and associated industry would have anything whatever to do with influencing a vote on this matter. I consider that to be very sinister, and I'd feel the same way if they were pushing for a Yes vote. Martin: That's fair enough. My point here isn't a negative one though. I just happen to be deeply disturbed at the thought that the American military and associated industry would have anything whatever to do with influencing a vote on this matter.

I consider that to be very sinister, and I'd feel the same way if they were pushing for a Yes vote.

]]> By: Martin http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35511 Martin Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:45:22 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35511 Ok, maybe I'm just fed up with the "Yes" camp and the media making funding for the opposite side an issue and read the same negative bullshit into what you wrote. I have to say, however, re-reading your piece I still get the same sense from it although I humbly take your point that you didn't mention Ganley's financial arrangements. Jaysus you're getting pedantic in your old age. Fantastic blog by the way...just came across it today. Ok, maybe I'm just fed up with the "Yes" camp and the media making funding for the opposite side an issue and read the same negative bullshit into what you wrote. I have to say, however, re-reading your piece I still get the same sense from it although I humbly take your point that you didn't mention Ganley's financial arrangements. Jaysus you're getting pedantic in your old age. Fantastic blog by the way…just came across it today.

]]> By: Bock http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35479 Bock Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:28:04 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35479 Martin: Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not pointing to Ganley's financial arrangements. Martin: Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not pointing to Ganley's financial arrangements.

]]> By: Martin http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-35451 Martin Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:55:20 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/06/libertas-another-reason-for-voting-yes-to-the-lisbon-treaty#comment-35451 So it's a "No" and it turns out that the "do'nt be bullied" rhetoric had some truth in it after all as Europe's big noises call for Ireland to be disregarded/marginilised. Bock's pointing to Ganley's financial arrangements is as pointless as asking where the "Yes" money came from. I voted "No" because I don't trust our pols. When a photo of them having tea and scones together in Dundrum Shopping Centre appeared, my bullshit detector went into overdrive. The same paper carried an interview with an IBEC bigshot opining that the issue was a "no-brainer" Even more reason to vote "No". What finally made the decision for me was the following: http://euobserver.com/9/25920. This confirms what everybody already knew about abuse of immigrant labour and consequent displacement of native workers. A recipe for xenophobia and social chaos. I tried to find out if the proposed treaty addressed this without any success. I somehow doubt that it did. Ultimately, I think what lost the referendum was the fact that people are pissed off with the Government. They wanted a change at the last General Election but were scared off in the last week of the campaign by Fianna Fail's "safe pair of hands" rhetoric. Europe is a more nebulous concept and people feel safer giving the politicians a kicking on that issue. So it's a "No" and it turns out that the "do'nt be bullied" rhetoric had some truth in it after all as Europe's big noises call for Ireland to be disregarded/marginilised. Bock's pointing to Ganley's financial arrangements is as pointless as asking where the "Yes" money came from. I voted "No" because I don't trust our pols. When a photo of them having tea and scones together in Dundrum Shopping Centre appeared, my bullshit detector went into overdrive. The same paper carried an interview with an IBEC bigshot opining that the issue was a "no-brainer" Even more reason to vote "No". What finally made the decision for me was the following: http://euobserver.com/9/25920.
This confirms what everybody already knew about abuse of immigrant labour and consequent displacement of native workers. A recipe for xenophobia and social chaos. I tried to find out if the proposed treaty addressed this without any success. I somehow doubt that it did. Ultimately, I think what lost the referendum was the fact that people are pissed off with the Government. They wanted a change at the last General Election but were scared off in the last week of the campaign by Fianna Fail's "safe pair of hands" rhetoric. Europe is a more nebulous concept and people feel safer giving the politicians a kicking on that issue.

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