Comments on: The Working Class

By: Liam G

Liam G — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:06:29 +0000

Wasn't you so much, mate, as some of your commenters as far as I could see. It's clear you don't have the 2 mixed up in reality. The real problem is that to many social workers and policemen and judges,( not us sociologists, mind you:-)) is that the reality and the conceptuality often amount to the same thing.

BTW Are you familiar with the Chris Rock comedy bit about the difference between N*ggers and black folks? If you aren't I think you'll find it funny in a serious kind of way and that it chimes in with a lot of your points.

By: Bock the Robber

Bock the Robber — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:53:28 +0000

Ah Jaysus, Liam, did I write it that badly?

I wasn't confusing the working class with the underclass.

I was saying that we shouldn't be misusing the term "working class" to describe people who have never worked in their lives.

By: Liam G

Liam G — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:25:30 +0000

Speaking as a sociologist, I can't wait for the day when we become the new clergy; all those robes, incense and altar boys (mmmmmmm!). But I think you mean social workers, not sociologists really.
Re the class thing, there is a different class structure here in Ireland, more of a caste system in fact, the product of colonialist under-development and the absence of an indigenous industrial revolution. Incidentally that's also the reason why we don't have many seedy seaside towns here either. But it's not really appropriate to compare the 2 countries at this level. Even in England there is a difference in class experience between urban and rural settings(Think The Archers vs Eastenders and you'll get a sense of it).
More importantly I think you're confusing the concept of working class with the concept of underclass, which are not at all the same thing. Marx recognised this way back in the 1840s when he wrote about the lumpen proletariat, the ASBO set of their day, who he saw as almost as big a set of leeches on the back of working people as the factory and land-owning classes. Come the revolution they'll all be put up against the wall:-)

Anyway, just to show there's no hard feelings and to compensate for the sociology lecture here's my favourite sociology joke:
Q What's the difference between a sociologist and a member of the mafia?
A: A sociologist will make you an offer you can't understand (buh-bum!!)

By: Bock the Robber

Bock the Robber — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:28:52 +0000

S&C: Overlooked your PPS.

My main worry is the people who are friends of mine and who feel trapped in those neighbourhoods, and who wonder if they'll ever escape the scumbags who have taken over their areas.

By: Bock the Robber

Bock the Robber — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:40:57 +0000

Niall: Well, when I was growing up, there were decent working people, and there were knackers. That was when "knackers" didn't mean "tinkers". It just meant knackers.

S&C: In this post, I'm actually talking about the new clergy. Sociologists. That's where the fight will continue now that the priests have been exposed.

By: Sniffle & Cry

Sniffle & Cry — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:02:21 +0000

Bock, for me The River defined working class when I first thought I knew what it might be, and later when I heard Thunder Road, I knew I was right. My parents were aspirational next class, and I shouldn't be too hard on them for that, but for these fucking aspirations, I felt they threw out the baby with the bath water. For a moment, Bruce articulated my anger at an anal suburban Limerick, and now of course, I live in a Limerick suburb.

I think you may have to be in your forties to remember working class suburbs populated by working class people ( well here anyway). I hear this dependency problem debated a lot today." They'll never work if everything is given to them," and the libertarians come on board with valid reasons for welfare, and the conservatives retort with malice, and the whole thing becomes a talking shop, a pendulum swinging back and forth until whomever in is vogue wins, for a moment. It's a played out scene. But that said. I think you're correct, and that the working class thing has become a badge of convenience. I notice that our church has returned their loving attention to this disenfranchised group, and will re-adopt them with platitudes, and with guilt and blackmail they'll get us to contribute to their upkeep. Wherever there is poverty, real or imagined, there is a flock.

PS Saw Munster on Saturday night - Gob bless Donnacha Ryan.
But are'nt Cork rugby supporters a benign shower of wuuses ?

The Black Cat thing is a miracle even if your crowd thought they were shite in Cardiff, and the whole thing is getting major frank spencer....

Scunts up there with Colchester, Burnley and Barnsley. Nose bleed territory surely

PPS My kids are too quick to say scum-bag when we pass working class neighbourhoods.

By: Niall

Niall — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:15:35 +0000

I've been thinking recently about class in Ireland.

I have no doubt it has always existed before the brits and their industrial revolution classifications. Here it seems that the more money/land you've aquired the better you are, despite the fact that those deemed to be better are as without "class" as the next person.

Now that Ireland has money, I think that there are many who are trying to claim a class for themselves, usually the "upper-middle class". How can one belong to an upper middle class if there is no Upper Class? Well I'm sure someone will get up the balls and the wealth to
claim that they're top of the ladder. It wouldn't be like the Brit aristocracy, more like the pinnacle of snobbery.

heres a nice article by Grandad
http://www.headrambles.com/2007/03/11/you-look-down-on-me-then-ill-look-down-on-you/

By: Bock the Robber

Bock the Robber — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:45:35 +0000

Working Poor is a good description.

I was already thinking of the American term Blue-collar. It seems to be a better description of people who work than the British term "working class", which carries overtones of their caste system.

However, as MairÃƒÂ©ad points out, we weren't without snobbery ourselves.

By: Fat Sparrow

Fat Sparrow — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:38:33 +0000

Over here in the States, they are now using the term "Working Poor" to differentiate between useless fuckers and people who actually work. You can't get cash aid here unless you also work, though. I take it that's not the case over there?

By: Bock the Robber

Bock the Robber — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:58:54 +0000

Thank you for the information about Godwin's Law.

I'll email the 50c immediately.